Curse

jackie · Apr 17, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

No build doesn't need defense. This is a game & no one can say what build is suitable to play. Period.

Hell Raiser · Apr 17, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

imo a lot of people go to iway because...
1. they refuse to try other builds
2. they were rejected by a non-iway group because they were "newb" to HA
3. they choose to play iway because they enjoy the build
4. they know no other builds and no one takes the time to explain what skills they need and when to use them, attributes/runes, basics of HA (timer, relics, alters etc) and other things (this may seem like a lot to teach someone but wouldn't you rather have more people to play other builds with rather then more iwayers to fight against?)
I know there are more options then just these four but the majority of iwayers that I meet went with either option two or four and once they got into it ended up relating to all options (first they were rejected and nobody helped them with the builds, then they began to like iway and play the build 'cause they enjoy it and after a while they just refuse to try other builds) these are my opinions and what I have seen happen to many people I know many of you have seen other situations or have other opinions, I'm saying now that if you have a negative comment about my post that I couldn't care less.

PS: I don't Iway

baz777 · Apr 18, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

In defence of IWAY and myself.

I started, much to my shame, to play IWAY 2 days ago for the first time.

My usual character is Mo/Me, and whilst usually having no trouble joining a team, the success I was achieving with unranked PUG’s was slow.

I have completed the game with my Mo/Me and hope that I have become a half decent player but in Heroes, because I can’t ‘emote under the bridge’, I am unable to join ranked teams. Hence I gave up on Heroes for a good while and only returned recently.

2 days ago I read a few useful threads on here, created a PVP W/R and went to Heroes. In just a few hours I gained more fame than I had achieved with my Mo/Me and gained R2.

I will continue with IWAY until I have gained Rank 3 and can ‘emote under the bridge’ with my monk.

Ado · Apr 18, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Regarding needing to have skill or not, it all depends which profession you play in a build.

There are enough professions in balanced which require the same ammount of skill as when you play taintednecro in iway. When I changed from iway to balanced, I had no problem whatsoever addapting to it. Coordination and targetting is a little different but thats about it. When i play in r6+ balanced teams, none of them notice that I've played iway. Why? Cause appart form the monk, every profession in balanced is quite easy to play. (some are slightly more difficult than the other). You need to get comfortable with your new profession but when you've played a couple of runs with it, it goes automaticly. At least that's my expierence with it.

It all depends how quick players are able to learn new things, it doesnt matter in which build they've played. Some ppl learn quick, others learn slow. Same as in real life.

But.......iway is overused and I do understand the frustration it gives to many players. But just imagine the following: if everyone would play for instance balanced, wouldnt that be frustrating? Versatility is a blessing

Jiao Yang · Apr 18, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

I have to say, I dont really see the problem with it. It DOES get rid of the crap teams so there is more challenge and it is very easy to beat with most of the builds i play with my guild.

makosi · Apr 18, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

IWAY is a clear exploit to the game. Orders, I Will Avenge You and Dust Trap were nerfed just like air-spike skills were backin the day and IWAY has ruined the face of GW PvP. I love watching guilds like Sir Coversman fry IWAY - they've got it right.

Yichi · Apr 19, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

tombs/HA/whatever u feel like calling it now a days is a complete joke anyway. what do you see. Esurge, Migrane, BLoodspike, IWAY, IWAY, another bloodspike, either and edge bomb or rspike occasionally, another iway, boom ur in halls facing what? migrane and esurge or bloodspike and iway. NUFF SAID!!

for anyone sayign that there will be diversity in Halls/HA/tombs/....... WRONG!!!!

people will always run whatever someone else runs because they are winning with it. The Zaishen started holding halls with bloodspike and now you see it as much as IWAY.

The whole point with this post is this. The reason people get so iritated with iway, bloodspike, E-surge, Migrane builds, is because if you play PVP for any amount of time other than 5 minutes, youll have already fought the same team build twice. I counted tonight when we went into HA.... one run... 5 iways in a row. followd by 3 bloodspikes in a row, then in halls, esurge balanced, vs our build, vs migrane balanced.... ok lets go again everyone interrupted everyone else... fought to a draw.... next HA run... IWAY, BLOODSPIKE, EoE Bomb (havent seen one of those recently... was quite fun to leech sig MoP and watch them all die

), IWAY, Migrane, Migrane, iway, iway halls = bloodspike vs bloodspike vs us vs iway, vs esurge....

Seissor · Apr 19, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

If I IWAY and I win. Sometimes the other team says IWAY is a stupid build, get a real one. But if IWAY loses than they say IWAY noobs, you're losers.

So. IWAY is noobie poo when it suits them but ZOMGBBQWTFLOL too powerful when they lose.

IWAY is a legit build, deal with it. The appeal of IWAY is clear. It requires alot of wars, and the most common character in GW is the warrior. It's very modular and doesn't require every person to have EXACTLY 8 skills or else it fails.

When I play balanced, it can take 1-2 hours to make a team. Spike can take 1 hour, IWAY it takes 20 mins or less to create a team. There's your appeal. The simplicity of forming a team and getting on with it.

I have NFI why people cry on about IWAY, FFS get another scapegoat for losing. It's neither a weak nor powerful build. It's effectiveness is influenced by the skill of the players.

Since IWAY is so popular you'll get the beginner or less experienced IWAY....ITS EASY FAME!!!!

Sometimes you get more experienced IWAY and they beat you. Yes...you LOST, deal with it, the series of events that transpired in the game whether they be luck/skill or a combination of the two led to your defeat! Stop being a bitch and say gg instead of IWAY noobs get a real build.

XvArchonvX · Apr 19, 2006, 12:36 PM // 12:36

If your answer to IWAY is simple, you are probably not taking something into account. What makes IWAY so strong isn't the skills or professions used, it's the way that it is used. That's why some IWAY fail miserably and others conquer HoH.

yesitsrob · Apr 19, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

well I think the fact you can play IWAY like complete shit and you can probably give someone a difficult game even if they are much better than you.

the so called _better_ iways are actually just more annoying, if you play well against them, it's probably just going to take you longer since IWAY teams nowadays have developed a strategy where their warriors kite mesmers.

In a recent HA run we came across a high ranked IWAY team that we beat twice, we were playing a horribly slow build that wasn't too easy to kill. They kindly pointed this out and mentioned that they got 300 fame a day....

HA is going to be about fame farming to the majority of people, not about unique fun builds. HA encourages these kind of annoying gimmick builds, bloodspike, iway etc because they are proven methods of getting fame.

your average pick up group isn't going to be good enough to do that well, there's normally always 1 or 2 people who are a weak link in the team. That's why running simple builds which tend to revolve around a caller or just aimlessly smacking away at monks is better to do in a pick up

Viruzzz · Apr 19, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicey Shake

I agree that it sort of filters out worse teams, but there are a few points I have to disagree with.

IWAY, as it stands, is usually 4 warriors, 2 rangers, 2 necros, right? What if you change it? Drop the useless traps of one ranger, drop one pet, sub in another necro.. is it still a nub, no skill build?

Wards... hexes, blinds.. all can be exploited by a 4 warrior offense easily. Interrupt, shock, or have a necro gale the wards and hexes. Have coordinated attack formations.. martyr for the nasty conditions.

Modding it even slightly increases it's power tremendously, my friends and I have flawlessed top 20 guild teams with it [in the past week, yes!] We've taken halls with it, and held a few times, too... does that mean all other teams we rolled are unworthy to enter? Even if we had run the stock build, the result would probably be the same..

Or, is it possible that with party members who listen and a designated leader of some tactical ingenuity, even a 'n00b cookie cutter, no skill' build can be successful, no matter how crapy it looked on paper?

you realise that it is impossible ti make an iway team with all these changes. you would need to change so many things that the build would become less IWAY, and be more of a standard balanced build. so by bringing counters to your counter, you no longer play the same build

Mai · Apr 19, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

well I think the fact you can play IWAY like complete shit and you can probably give someone a difficult game even if they are much better than you.

the so called _better_ iways are actually just more annoying, if you play well against them, it's probably just going to take you longer since IWAY teams nowadays have developed a strategy where their warriors kite mesmers.

In a recent HA run we came across a high ranked IWAY team that we beat twice, we were playing a horribly slow build that wasn't too easy to kill. They kindly pointed this out and mentioned that they got 300 fame a day....

HA is going to be about fame farming to the majority of people, not about unique fun builds. HA encourages these kind of annoying gimmick builds, bloodspike, iway etc because they are proven methods of getting fame.

your average pick up group isn't going to be good enough to do that well, there's normally always 1 or 2 people who are a weak link in the team. That's why running simple builds which tend to revolve around a caller or just aimlessly smacking away at monks is better to do in a pick up

Quoted for truth

Finally someone else sees HA like I do :L

qwe4rty · Apr 19, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcarracers052

BTW, the other day we ran original IWAY with 8 wars, and we gained about 15 fame from the run. So, it isn't really weakened from the original build.

Just recently I got some fame with 3 random people and 4 hench. Does that make hench overpowered, or the opponents not that good?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

The reason I don’t like the build is it allows even the most retarded people to compete in an area that should reward intelligence and tact.

Now, this has nothing to do with my stance for or against IWAY, but what is your definition of "intelligence" and "tact" in HA? R-Spike? Nec-Spike? Air-Spike? Smite? Balanced? Gimmick?

Kurow · Apr 19, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

You can't just blame a build, and inanimate, non-thinking entity for all the woes the American server is experiencing.

I think in this case you can blame the build, because it is the means through which americans do not change their tactics, and do not hold HoH. Without it another FoTM would have to be made, which *GASP* might be less effective? Is it possible that the next flavor is using balanced teams? Personally I dont like the idea of IWAY, and it seems like everyone defending it isnt saying its right, so much as its not wrong, which is not how you prove somethings worth.

And IWAY in no way serves as a bar to jump if "everyone knows how to beat it", because if this was true, then no one would use IWAY. Personally I dont care if its not wrong, I still dont like it.

tomcruisejr · Apr 19, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBiggums

its funny how all the defense for iway is coming from people that play iway in iway guilds.

i don't expect the non-iway players and the haters to defend the build. :/

another reason that the build doesnt appeal to most of the players as "one among the builds" is that it's far from the generic: uses spirits (do you see natures renewal (anti enchanters and hexers) or predatory season (antimonks) in a balanced build?), doesnt have the ranged spike, 4 warriors with pets, necros bringing minimal healing. it doesnt look balanced (no solid defense but superb offense, no monks, no mesmers, no warders, no spikers, no shock warriors, no soul wedding like moves or last of the master slashes). it is crude and it doesnt look "cool".

in a build with a solid defense and solid offense, there will be rooms for error. but in iway, one minor mistake can make you lose because the inherent imbalance in the build. and this imbalance makes it challenging and fun to play.

offense is the best defense, indeed.

Aejorii · Apr 19, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

(havent seen one of those recently... was quite fun to leech sig MoP and watch them all die

),

Hahahaaaa

Frost_ · Apr 19, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

iway is the reason america never has favor anymore

occasionaly a good team will lose to iway because of edge but that rarly happens

(they dont relize that build got the shit nerfed out of it)

they cant tainted+orders or duel orders anymore

and the attack speed got nerfed from 150% faster to 133% faster to 33% faster

its pointless to run iway now because almost every group has some way to beat iway without really trying

leprekan · Apr 19, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frost_

iway is the reason america never has favor anymore

occasionaly a good team will lose to iway because of edge but that rarly happens

(they dont relize that build got the shit nerfed out of it)

they cant tainted+orders or duel orders anymore

and the attack speed got nerfed from 150% faster to 133% faster to 33% faster

its pointless to run iway now because almost every group has some way to beat iway without really trying

HA boredom is a bigger factor if you ask me. I know there are many rank9 and ups that don't HA now. With the nerf of iway why hasnt the US started winning favor more? They aren't getting knocked out by iway in early rounds so perhaps it is the decline of skilled players.

It is really less about iway and more about fotms. Air spike, spirit spam, smite ETC if you are honest ... iway was actually skilled compared to spirit spam

Now people are calling for oath shot nerfs. Why???? Because blood spike is doing well in HA? Anyone see a pattern here? Bottom line people do NOT like to lose ... as long as there is PvP there will be a thread like this one (insert fotm).

sisCo · Apr 19, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by baz777

In defence of IWAY and myself.

I started, much to my shame, to play IWAY 2 days ago for the first time.

My usual character is Mo/Me, and whilst usually having no trouble joining a team, the success I was achieving with unranked PUG’s was slow.

I have completed the game with my Mo/Me and hope that I have become a half decent player but in Heroes, because I can’t ‘emote under the bridge’, I am unable to join ranked teams. Hence I gave up on Heroes for a good while and only returned recently.

2 days ago I read a few useful threads on here, created a PVP W/R and went to Heroes. In just a few hours I gained more fame than I had achieved with my Mo/Me and gained R2.

I will continue with IWAY until I have gained Rank 3 and can ‘emote under the bridge’ with my monk.

You obviously dont deserve your Iwayed rank. I can complete the game with my warrior but does that mean I can play warrior in HA? Of course not. PvE is WAY different than PVP and most PvE'rs tend to forget that. Im actually happy I got my r6, so I know for sure you wont be in any of my groups now. gg

Teams that ask you to emote just low-esteemed idiots who, just like you, Iway'd their fame.

Iway ruined the rank system more and while yes most of got rank 6 and 9 by other FotMs. They sure had more skill to play than Iway - Only exception is Air Spike which was basically Orb 321 and Chain 321.

Dahl · Apr 19, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I hate IWAY, period, but it should not be nerfed further. The attack speed was reduced, orders was cut down, and the weakness of the build is plain as day.

The way I see it, if you cannot defeat iway, you don't even have the right to hold halls anyways. It is a makeshift build that is easily countered and easily beaten if you know how to play. It's true that newbs shouldn't be able to win so much, but once enough builds come out to counter iway and it becomes more common to beat iway, the newbs will feel like a carpet was just ripped from under their feet.

I'm kinda sad now that iway isnt so common anymore... I used to just tear right through iway teams because I could use a build entirely dedicated to anti-iway and i could almost rely on always encountering them.

Blood spike is a big issue at the moment, but that will be over with when factions comes out. Spiking as you know it, with ANY profession, will cease to exist, due to a certain protection spell that I will not mention here because I will spoil my advantage.